River Situationa

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Wynngolfhatguy
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River Situationa

Postby Wynngolfhatguy » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:41 am

Two interesting hands I played from a session earlier this week.

$1/2 NL Hold’em; $300 max buy

Hand #1
Hero ($425; 3 from the button) ~ TAG image; l’ve been playing a bit tighter than usual due to poor results in my last 3-4 sessions and I’m just trying to book a win tonight; (although I’m definitely NOT playing scared); table probably views me as competent and tight

Villain 1 ($500; BB) ~ early to mid-50s; has only been at the table for two orbits as was moved from another table; already I can tell he is one of those players that watches a lot of poker on TV; anytime it’s his turn he takes 10 seconds before he does anything then SLOWLY completes his action; he’s only been at the table for two orbits and I'm already annoyed by him

Villain 2 ($80; button) ~ mid 30s; moved to the table at the same time V1 did; staring off into space and not really paying attention; in only two orbits had to be reminded that it was his turn several times

Several limps to Hero in mid/late position (3 from the Button). I raise to $12 with [8h] , [7s] . Folds to the V2 (Button) who calls and folds to V1 (BB) who calls. Everyone else folds. (This is my first pre-flop raise in roughly 1.5 hours of play)

Pot is $40
Flop is [7d] , [4d] , [4s] .

BB checks to me. I bet $25. Button calls and BB calls.

(Reads: I’m putting V2 on a flush draw and V1 on either a mid-pocket pair or floating with two over cards)

Pot is $125
Turn is [7h] .

BB checks. I bet $50. Button thinks and fold. BB goes through his standard pattern and calls.

Pot is $225
River is [Kc] .

Villain 1 does his schtick and bets $100.

Hero should fold, call or raise? Why?
What is the Villain’s hand range here?



Hand #2

Same table as above; about 2AM
Hero ($525; two from the Button); my image is the same as above

Villain 1 ~ ($1200; Button); Asian guy in his mid to late 50s; Very aggressive LAG; not scared to bluff, semi-bluff and uses position well; doesn’t play stupid or totally spewy but tends to overplay marginal hands; trys to push you off your hand and put pressure on you; does seem to pick his battles between good players and bad; moved to our table about 1.5 hours earlier when his table broke. He came with $900 and he has generally been running over our table. I have stuck around hoping to get involved with him and winning a big Pot.

I limp along with several others with [Qh] , [Th] . Villain 1 (Button) raises to $6. I call along with a few others.

Pot is ~$30
Flop is [Kc] , [9c] , [6d] .

Checks to Villain who bets $15. Folds to Hero who calls. Another player behind me calls. (This is the first time I’ve played past the flop with the Villain; I’m very confident he notices this)

Pot is ~ $75
Turn is [Js] .

I check. Other player checks. Villain bets $35. I raise to $135. Other player folds. Villain calls instantly and looks at me with a confused look.

Pot is ~ $345
River is [3s] .

Hero should bet or check? If betting, what amount and why?
"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism" ~ Kenny Powers

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allin67
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Re: River Situationa

Postby allin67 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:29 am

Hand #1 - You are only losing to 4-4 or K-K here. I think you crush his range. I raise the river to $250 total. I might actually consider folding if he confidently pushes over the top, but I think you need to get value here. I think that Hero's range includes AA (5%), K-x (25%), 7-x (25%), 4-x(15%), random garbage and missed draws (25%), and 4-4 (5% or less). You can get paid by several hands here, including A-A, maybe K-X, and 4-X. I have a hard time putting any Villain here on K-K given how passively this hand was played. I don't like that a raise will often result in a fold (minimizing potential gain), when we will always get raised by hands that have us beat. But, our hand is too well disguised to simply check behind. We will get called by some strong two pair hands here.

Hand #2 - We have the immortal nuts on the river. We made a surprisingly strong bet on the turn and got called. The Villain very likely has something. Given the strength we have already shown, I don't know that we can check here. Even a very aggressive LAG (by the way, was very aggressive LAG only bets $6 on the button pre-flop?) should be slowed down by the strength we showed on the turn. I would think a LAG would only bet the river on a busted draw. If you knew Villain had 7-8 or two clubs, checking would be right. However, if the guy is a decent player, he might well have folded such a draw to your check raise. The price was not right to call on a draw here with one card to come.

So, I am giving him credit for a hand. The instant call could mean a set, and certainly we should hope it does. If he has a set, we are probably good either betting or checking. However, if he has top pair (another likely holding), we are far better off here by betting. Again, we can't let him check behind. I like a bet of $225 on the river.

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steve e
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Re: River Situationa

Postby steve e » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:32 am

Hand 1: I don't put V1 on KK here. Most 1/2 games I play, villains are not just flatting an open raise in EP with KK or AA, they are raising. Again, given chip stack size, I shove the remaining. Nice Hand.

Hand 2: Given your chip stack size, I shove. It could look like desparation on hero's end, after making possibly a semi bluff check raise on turn. If V1 has a set his money will (likely) be getting in either way, but with top pair he is likely checking it down on the river if you check. I agree with allin that if he is a strong player he has a good hand here. He is likely calling. Nice Hand.

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SunshinesDad
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Re: River Situationa

Postby SunshinesDad » Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:42 pm

Hand 1:
I agree that V1 does not have AA or KK. You would have known before this point.

I'm only really worried about 44 here, but it's such a slim chance (5% or less, IMO) that I feel very confident u have at least a chop, but most likely a win.

I think your initial read was right - 2 overs, probably diamonds, with the K. He probably thinks u have a mid pair and the K is a good scare card if he completely whiffed or made him a winner if he has a K.

I'd min-raise and hope he shoves over top.

Hand 2:
I'd put V on KJ or better here and may be genuinely confused at your reraise as the J made his hand stronger, or may be trying a common 1/2 move of "look confised or scared and try to trap".

I think he calls most bets here, so I don't fold, but he may fold to a shove. I bet $175-$225 and take it down.
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BentonBlakeman
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Re: River Situationa

Postby BentonBlakeman » Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:07 pm

Hand 1- shove. You have less than a pot sized bet left so jamming isn't out of line (425 pot after u call and you have only 250ish left to raise). Plus, if you'd ever bluff it would always be a jam and never a smaller raise. His range is a 4, a 7, diamond draws w/ the Kd, and bluffs with missed diamonds or 5-6

Hand 2- well played. Normally I'd fold the flop but this deep I like peeling for a clean 3 outer to the nuts and the chance to win a big one playing 250+bb deep effective. Good sizing so far. Bet 225 on the river.
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Wynngolfhatguy
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Re: River Situationa

Postby Wynngolfhatguy » Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:29 am

You guys read the situations perfectly. Unfortunately, what you recommended that I do, isn't what happened.

Hand #1
I will preface this by saying my recent losing streak clouded my judgment a bit. During this streak Villains have gotten incredibly lucky against me, and it's made me a bit gun shy.

As be bet the $100, I had an incredible sinking feeling he had KK. I didn't think he'd float $70 with only AK.
There is no way he's putting me on a 7. I opted to just call.

He showed AK and was very surprised when I flipped my 7. I'm pretty sure he would have called an all-in. So...missed opportunity.

Hand #2
allin67 wrote:Even a very aggressive LAG (by the way, was very aggressive LAG only bets $6 on the button pre-flop?)


He would bet anywhere from $6 to $20 if the Pot was not opened by the time it got to him. This raise happened to be on the lighter side.

I agree with everyone's assessment. I think he has a hand here.
I am also loath to check because I think he will check even very good hands behind just to "see what I have".

After a little bit of thought, I shoved. The Villain thought for a bit and folded without showing. I am pretty sure he would have called $175 to $225 as most suggested I bet.

Thanks for your input.
"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism" ~ Kenny Powers

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Re: River Situationa

Postby BentonBlakeman » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:04 am

Thx for the solid post. Isn't it nice to have a place to learn about our mistakes so we're less likely to make them again in the future! I hope you got that much needed win you were looking for and are now back on track!
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Wynngolfhatguy
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Re: River Situationa

Postby Wynngolfhatguy » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:40 pm

BentonBlakeman wrote:Thx for the solid post. Isn't it nice to have a place to learn about our mistakes so we're less likely to make them again in the future! I hope you got that much needed win you were looking for and are now back on track!


True dat!

I did snap my losing streak. However, as you know (& from these examples) not maximizing big hands can be as detrimental losing hands.
Had I played these hands better, it would have likely resulted in an additional $400 to $500 in winnings.
"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism" ~ Kenny Powers

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Re: River Situationa

Postby fightingillini » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:52 am

First hand is an easy shove. Pot is $325 and Hero has about $330 behind. Shoving would give V1 an option to call $230 for a pot that has about $655 for 2.8 to 1 pot odds. He isn't folding a 4 or a 7 and may call with AK of diamonds if he doesn't believe you hold a 7 or a 4. It's unlikely that V has KK or 44 and if he did, that's incredibly bad luck.

Second hand....you can't check ever. You have the nuts and V either has a good made hand like TPTK or better or he was on a draw. If he was on a draw, he is unlikely to bluff the river for you with your TAG image.....he's going to put you on a solid made hand that you will unlikely fold. So target AK or two pair or set hands......pot is $390 and Hero has about $360 behind. Shoving is unlikely to get called unless V has KJ or a set. I want him to pay me off with AK or KQ or K9. A bet of about $180-210 is fine. If he has KJ or was trapping with a set, you're going to double up no matter what you bet here. Can't see V folding AK for 2.8 to 3-1 pot odds.


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