Harrah's Shedding Rio

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scitchr888
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Re: Harrah's Shedding Rio

Postby scitchr888 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:47 am

To revive a dead thread/add fuel to the fire, Vegas Today and Tomorrow has an updated convention space listing HERE, and surprisingly (well, to me anyway), Caesars has half a million square feet of total convention space, by far the largest in the HET empire. Second is Bally's :!: at 175K, Rio at 160K, Paris at 140K, then P-Ho at 88K. The largest single room is an ~85,000 sq. ft. room at Paris (again, :!: ), the The Pavilion at Rio (almost 55K), a 50K+ one at CP, a 40K one at Bally's, and then a ~37K room at P-Ho. What does this say to me? No way in hell it moves to Planet Hollywood if the Rio is sold (and I'm not completely sure of that, either). My money is on Caesars Palace.

The above plus HET getting ready to change their name to Ceaser's Entertainment Corporation leads one to believe that Ceaser's will be the new home of the WSOP.

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Re: Harrah's Shedding Rio

Postby Bargeguy » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:16 am

If you ask me, a change in name to Caesar's Entertainment would be a great move. I'm don't think that having Harrah's as your flagship property is that impressive. Moving the WSOP to Caesars would be another good move if they do indeed have the space, it would be a nice upgrade all the way around. Not to cause too much extra chatter, does anyone know when the WSOP contract renews? My guess is that Wynn, Sands and MGM would like to take a crack at it when it does. I'm positive that Sands has the space and would guess that the others would as well.

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Re: Harrah's Shedding Rio

Postby psand » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:27 am

Bargeguy wrote: does anyone know when the WSOP contract renews? My guess is that Wynn, Sands and MGM would like to take a crack at it when it does. I'm positive that Sands has the space and would guess that the others would as well.



I believe you misunderstand. the WSOP is not a seperate entity that contracts with Harrah's. The WSOP is trademark which was the property of Binions Horseshoe and was acquired by Harrah's when Harrah's bought Binions Horseshoe. Harrah's then shed themselves of the property but kept the rights to the horseshoe name and the World Series of Poker. Their is no contract to expire. At least this has always been my understanding.

And while I have no idea what was going on in their heads I have always believed that the acquistion of the WSOP trademark was not foremost in their thoughts. Harrah's really wanted the Horseshoe name (because they owned it in other markets) so when Binion's was in trouble they pounced. In the process they ended up with the WSOP as a bonus.
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Re: Harrah's Shedding Rio

Postby PhlyinPhil » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:56 am

Re: Harrah's Shedding Rio
by zzjitterzz on Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:17 pm

To revive a dead thread/add fuel to the fire, Vegas Today and Tomorrow has an updated convention space listing HERE, and surprisingly (well, to me anyway), Caesars has half a million square feet of total convention space, by far the largest in the HET empire. Second is Bally's at 175K, Rio at 160K, Paris at 140K, then P-Ho at 88K. The largest single room is an ~85,000 sq. ft. room at Paris (again, ), the The Pavilion at Rio (almost 55K), a 50K+ one at CP, a 40K one at Bally's, and then a ~37K room at P-Ho. What does this say to me? No way in hell it moves to Planet Hollywood if the Rio is sold (and I'm not completely sure of that, either). My money is on Caesars Palace.


Interesting info. LVM suggested the space needed for the WSOP wouldn't be conventional "Convention" space. (see following)
Anyone know how much space the WSOP uses. could they combine Bally's and Paris?
I still say have it at the IP. Eithe put poker tables in the hotel rooms or int the parking garage.

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by LasVegasMichael on Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:43 am

They have wanted to move it to Caesars, but they do NOT have the facility to do it. If they did, they would have moved it there instead of the Rio from the get go, years ago when they first bought the WSOP.

PH has a significant amount of unused floorspace that is not listed as convention space on the website. The entire second floor of the casino on the mezz as well as above the mall is all usable floorspace that is not considered convention space. Caesars has nowhere close to that.

My money is on PH getting the WSOP no later than 2012, possibly 2011.Incessant Twitter Ramblings available here: LasVegasMichael

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Re: Harrah's Shedding Rio

Postby apollo » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:18 am

PhlyinPhil wrote:Anyone know how much space the WSOP uses. could they combine Bally's and Paris?
I still say have it at the IP. Eithe put poker tables in the hotel rooms or int the parking garage.

Back in April I wrote:
apollo wrote:For the record, the big rooms used by WSOP at Rio are: Amazon @39K ft^2, Pavillion @55K ft^2, Brasilia @20K ft^2, and Miranda @10K ft^2. Plus they use several smaller spaces for various things. Total convention space is 160K ft^2 and the WSOP pretty much fills it.

Caesars has 51K, 36K, 28K rooms with 300K total.
Bally's has 47K, 15K, 10K rooms with 175K total.
Paris has 85K, 17K, 8K with 140K total.
Flamingo, Harrah's, and IP are hopeless.

Guess the 300K listed on Harrah's web pages for Caesars convention space then didn't include the recent additions.

The trick is they need big rooms to host the tourneys. Lots of 10K sqft rooms would be really annoying. Having one room with 300 tables in it is way excellent, along with other rooms with fewer tables to handle second and third days of tournaments and cash games and sitNgos and the daily tourneys. I thought it seemed to work pretty well this year since they turned the Pavillion into the main tourney room.

As for IP hosting it... the entire Imperial Palace casino is not even 50K square feet. It wouldn't even be able to hold as many tables as the Pavillion room alone did this year. :) (Yes, I know you were joking.) The whole Bellagio casino floor is 160K sqft, which would just about be comfy for hosting the WSOP. That may put in perspective the size of the space they need to find.

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Re: Harrah's Shedding Rio

Postby Local Rock » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:25 am

apollo wrote:That may put in perspective the size of the space they need to find.


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Shuffle up and deal (with it).

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Re: Harrah's Shedding Rio

Postby twriter » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:46 am

Bargeguy wrote:If you ask me, a change in name to Caesar's Entertainment would be a great move. I'm don't think that having Harrah's as your flagship property is that impressive. Moving the WSOP to Caesars would be another good move if they do indeed have the space, it would be a nice upgrade all the way around. Not to cause too much extra chatter, does anyone know when the WSOP contract renews? My guess is that Wynn, Sands and MGM would like to take a crack at it when it does. I'm positive that Sands has the space and would guess that the others would as well.


Rebranding is one of the most idiotic and needlessly expensive boondoggles a company can undertake. It is entirely wasteful unless the original name has become damaged beyond recovery. (Think Philip Morris--and I understand even that is being spun off and revived.) While Harrah's as a specific property doesn't cry out "luxury" and "upscale" (ideas that do not hold a lot of attraction for me, but I guess I'm in the minority in that regard), Harrah's as a brand has a strong and, as far as I know, positive connotation to the general public. Changing that is just stupid.

IIRC, the issue about where else to hold the WSOP isn't about raw amount of available space, but about access t that space. I don't want to go back and scan through this and other threads that discuss the topic, but I remember reading something that said access to the convention space at Caesar's involved a significant bottleneck. That said, I imagine Harrah's upper management is less concerned with the comfort of thousands of poker players, many of whom arrive with some sense of WSOP-style entitlement, than they are with the thought of marketing this huge and popular event at its flagship property.
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Re: Harrah's Shedding Rio

Postby zzjitterzz » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:45 pm

Local Rock wrote:
apollo wrote:That may put in perspective the size of the space they need to find.


Image

Shuffle up and deal (with it).

Image

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