Live game showdown dilemma

Question by Jimmy the Gent Posted
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11 Comments

So I have a scenario i'd like an opinion on.
Just happened to me at a live game.

I'm in early position and I look down at AA the pot is limped for $3.
I raise to $12 into $8 (which was prob a small raise considering the action at the table)
And i get called in two spots button and small blind.
So pot's $38, flop comes Q high with 2 clubs.
Gets checked to me, I bet $26.
Button calls (loose player) and blind folds.
Turn pairs 9s. I go all in for $87 bc I really don't want to get out drawn.
Button calls and river is a blank red deuce.

Now here's where it gets strange.
I flip over my aces, and button mumbles something like, "Aww unlucky on that 9" and as he goes to flip his cards over.
They land face down, so dealer immediately mucks them.
And he says he didn't mean to muck his hand.
So the dealer calls floorman.
And the floor asks, "Whos aces?"
Dealer points to me. And the floor says its the players responsibility to protect their hand. But that he'll cover the buttons bet.
Awards the pot to aces.

Now even though he claimed to have a 9, and meant to "showdown".
Was the ruling fair?
Should I feel like i cheated bc the button claimed to have the best hand and just made a mistake in flipping his cards?

Comments

  1. You shouldn't feel bad at all because you didn't do anything wrong. It sounds like the dealer mucked the hand too quickly, but the floorman is correct, the button did not protect his hand. If he really had a 9, then he made a dumb mistake and paid for it. And the floorman was nice enough to cover the all in bet, so honestly, the button didn't really pay as much as he should have for his mistake.

    Dave

  2. @Dap Poker
    Thanks for the reply, the dealer did seem to muck quickly. But what was "unfortunate" for the button. That when he tossed his hand it landed right near the dead cards. So the dealer I think might've muscle memoried them.
    But when the other players started chiming in and the dealer pushed the pot toward me I didn't feel comfortable continuing at that table.

  3. I thougt I was the only one , dealers dictate other than high stakes today?

  4. You absolutely did nothing wrong, if the guy would just have flipped his hand over instead of tossing it like a goof, he would have been fine. It was the first thing I ever learned at a casino, protect your own cards at all costs, and he didn't. You won it fair and square because you pay attention

  5. Sounds like you played it okay to me, maybe not an all in bet on that turn. But the button absolutely should have protected their hand better. I've seen players have their card just over the racetrack get their hands mucked when action went to them when they didn't mean to fold. Anyone who wants to argue that either hasn't been playing long enough or just simply doesn't know what they're doing.

  6. To me it looks like the dealer made the mistake, but not because of his quick muck, but the way he ran the hand after your all-in.
    From my understanding, if you go all in on the turn, and Button calls, isn't everyone required to flip over their cards before the next card (the river) is dealt? Every table I've played at, if there's a call on an all-in bet before the river, everyone who is still in the hand is required to flip over before any more cards are dealt.
    I was at a table, in a similar circumstance, but at a tourney at the Commerce. Flop comes 10 high. Big Blind raises, 5th position goes all in. Folds back to BB who calls the all in. The 5th position all in player flips over AA. When BB sees this, he throws his hand face down in the muck. The dealer says he can't do this on an all in hand. TD is called over and since the 2 cards he threw in the muck were still identifiable, the TD pulled them out saying everyone must flip over on all in hand. BB's hand is A-10, giving him top pair on the flop, against AA....the bad beat happened when the rest of the cards are dealt and a 10 came on the river, giving BB (temper tantrum guy) three of a kind, incidentally knocking out AA all-in player

    Here's an interesting thread:
    http://www.thehendonmob.com/tournament_director4/another_mucked_hand_ruling#

  7. @thomas13 Only in tournaments all the players in a hand must turn their cards over.
    In a cash game, you can choose to not showdown your hand if you see you lost.
    Since I showdowned my aces first, he "accidently" tossed his cards face down and forward. So It was ruled a muck.
    What I felt was unnecessary was the other players chiming in that they "saw" and reaching and touching the "dead" hand saying "they were those".

    @rstrack89 I realize after later analysis of the way I played that hand could've been better.
    Like my raise preflop could've been a bit more, and my bet on the flop could've been more than 1/2 pot. My all in on the turn was bc i really didnt want to get
    Outdrawn so i wanted to end the hand right there.

  8. @thomas13 Only in tournaments all the players in a hand must turn their cards over.
    In a cash game, you can choose to not showdown your hand if you see you lost.
    Since I showdowned my aces first, he "accidently" tossed his cards face down and forward. So It was ruled a muck.
    What I felt was unnecessary was the other players chiming in that they "saw" and reaching and touching the "dead" hand saying "they were those".

    @rstrack89 I realize after later analysis of the way I played that hand could've been better.
    Like my raise preflop could've been a bit more, and my bet on the flop could've been more than 1/2 pot. My all in on the turn was bc i really didnt want to get
    Outdrawn so i wanted to end the hand right there.

  9. @Jimmy the Gent Thanks for the clarification. I was unaware of that distinction between cash and tournament.

  10. @thomas13 No problem, I can see why it might've seemed odd that we got to the river w/o both turning our hands up.
    Also I read that thread, it is interesting. Although I do agree that the player is entirely responsible for their hand, and once the cards have hit the muck, I believe they should not be retrieved and be ruled dead.

  11. @Jimmy the Gent
    What if he didnt have 9? And it doesnt matter too. If he throw his hand face down next to the dead cards... even if the dealer take a loo on that hand and he has 9... you can call floorman for that situation too. And you should stil win the pot.... because his hand is dead.

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