Sometimes You Get What You Wanted And....

Strategy & Advice by playinem Posted
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A $1-2 NLH game with 9 players. I'm in the CO with $248. Action folds to a player in MP with $253 who opens for $10. It folds to me and I look down at Qs-Js. I call. The Btn with $307 calls. The SB folds and the BB with $216 calls. Four of us end up going to the flop with $41 (less rake) in the middle.

The flop comes out Th-8s-As. The BB checks. The MP open raiser bets out for $25. I call. The Btn folds and the BB calls. Three of us go to the turn with $116 (less rake) in the pot. The turn is the Ts. The BB checks again. The MP open raiser who has been driving the action bets $90. I am holding the second nut flush but the board has just paired which has to be a major consideration. The player in the BB has been involved in a lot of hands going up and down in the three and a half hours I've been on this table. He hasn't taken the lead yet and he's been checking in what seems to me like an effort at pot control. I think he could have an Ace, outside chance at trip tens and at best a baby flush. The player in MP has only been on the table about an hour. In that time he has won every hand (only 4 or 5) that he has gotten into. I am more worried about him than I am the BB. If he is sitting behind pocket Aces, Tens or A-T...I'm screwed. If he has Ks-Xs...I'm screwed. Everything else I'm ahead of. My hand has played out as well as I could have hoped for when I initially decided to play it. If I call $90 it represents almost half of my stack with more to come possibly on the river. I have to look at this as a commitment of all my chips if I'm going to play. At least that is what I'm thinking. If I go ahead and shove here I might get one or in a perfect world even both of my opponents to fold. I feel like I'm ahead here but very possibly vulnerable and I would like to thin the opposition and the chances of someone catching up to me if I can so my inclination is to shove here. I have $213 left and I go ahead and push it all in.

Was I correct to shove here? Should I even be in this hand at this point? Is there any good argument for taking the line of just calling? As always I will post what happened in a few days. Thank you.

Comments

  1. I am not a fan of flat calling pre-flop. I think a nice raise to 35 gets 2 players to fold to you. You have a good hand that solidly hits the flop. Isolate, isolate isolate.

  2. The BB went in the tank for a long 2-3 minutes and then folded. The MP opener called for a $123 more and flipped over Ac-Ks. The river was the 4h and I won a pretty massive pot for this game. I feel like I played this hand pretty well...no nagging second thoughts about it. I got my chips in the middle when I was ahead and even if the river had coughed up a spade I don't think there was a better way for me to proceed through the hand than the way I did. KK thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. After some thought though I don't think the player I ultimately was against would have gone anywhere if I had raised pre-flop. Doing so would have meant that more of my money was going in the middle when I was behind requiring me to get lucky and suck out to win.

  3. The BB went in the tank for a long 2-3 minutes and then folded. The MP opener called for a $123 more and flipped over Ac-Ks. The river was the 4h and I won a pretty massive pot for this game. I feel like I played this hand pretty well...no nagging second thoughts about it. I got my chips in the middle when I was ahead and even if the river had coughed up a spade I don't think there was a better way for me to proceed through the hand than the way I did. KK thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. After some thought though I don't think the player I ultimately was against would have gone anywhere if I had raised pre-flop. Doing so would have meant that more of my money was going in the middle when I was behind requiring me to get lucky and suck out to win.

  4. @playinem The most important thing is you won the hand. Congratulations.

  5. Nice Post. I like your preflop call. Save your three bets for hands that can withstand a 4 bet. It would suck to three bet QJs and have to fold to a four bet, forfeiting your equity. As played flop call is fine, turn you can call or shove, I don't think it matters much with your stack size. Well played

  6. Preflop call if best here with position (let it work for you; keep the pot small for now and see what the flop brings). On this great flop, I think calling and raising are both solid options. I'd lean call here only because inevitably here someone has flopped top pair and I don't know that you necessarily have huge fold equity. I'd rather play this hand slow if I am getting okay odds to do that. If, on that flop, the pre-flop raiser had bet $50 into the $41 pot I might think differently. Often, with an overbet, a player is trying to find out where they stand with a one pair hand. Their over-bet here is just trying to take down the pot as it stands. You generally would not see an overbet here with a flopped set, to contrast a different situation. So, I almost feel like you have more fold equity against an overbet (and have plenty of hand equity to go with it). So, against an overbet, I far prefer a shove here. But $25 is not an overbet, so as it actually played out, I like the flat call.

    Once you hit on the turn, I think you can go either way but (as played) prefer the shove. The pot is big by the time the $90 is bet (and you are always at least calling, so you can add that to the pot size too). So fooling around with a slowplay here is risky and greedy, although you are way ahead of many of your opponents hands. But making the naked high Spade, trips, and two pair pay to see a river makes some sense to me. Some hands, say middle pair with the high spade, might well not pay you off on the river. So, don't give them that choice. I like raising on the turn, but see the value of trapping with a fairly strong hand here.

  7. I think you played this hand the best way you can. The only difference in your play and someone else's is the shove vs the flat. Nobody folds here or thinks about folding unless MP shoved on the turn (which he most likely would not do if he has the nuts or a full house). Also I'm not sure if you didn't recognize or just forgot to mention but you had a double gutter Straight flush/Royal flush draw (if the 9s or Ks Rivers) Under no circumstance for $200 am I folding here. Maybe if there was 6 figures + on the line but no way for anything under $500 am I even thinking about folding. Good play!

  8. @BentonBlakeman never call here. Raise or fold. if villain 4 bets out of position you know he's at the very top of his range and it's an easy fold. Winning doesn't mean you played it right.

  9. @BamBam8 "never call here. Raise or fold."

    Why?

    "if villain 4 bets out of position you know he's at the very top of his range and it's an easy fold."

    And if he calls? The flop is going to be hard to play. After putting in 12% of your stack pre you will be folding most flops. Even if you hit an Q or a J you're not going to love it - nearly every hand that continues (AA, KK, QQ, AQ, KQs, AJs) has you crushed). If you flop a draw you don't have implied odds to play it profitably.

    P.S. Benton Blakeman is a Vegas 5/10 pro.

  10. @KingKelley Thank you and thanks for commenting, I appreciate your input and advice.

  11. @BentonBlakeman Thank you very much. I'm an avid reader of your content on here and a genuine admirer of your analytical poker skills. Consequently a "well played" from you is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

  12. @allin67 Thank you for the strong analysis in your commentary. I found it valuable and really appreciate your contribution.

  13. @allin67 Thank you for the strong analysis in your commentary. I found it valuable and really appreciate your contribution.

  14. @allin67 Thank you very much.

  15. @HighoffThaLife Thank you I appreciate that.

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